Raised by Wolves and Fistful of Luck with Lisa Kohn and Robbie Kohn on Falling Out Podcast

Episode 1

4. Intro to season 4 of the podcast. Making it accessible in Japan. Change in Japanese law – draft of guidelines regarding child abuse to include practices of the church. Similarity of the raptors in Jurassic Park testing the fences. One day the fences will come down. Jurassic Park dinosaurs were bred into servitude – second generation are like the baby dinosaurs in Jurassic Park.

13. Intro Lisa and Rob Kohn. 29. Mom makes the kids choose to leave them. Members said thank you for the sacrifice. Church leaders saying you are lucky to pay this sacrifice. At 11 years old. 32. Being taken out of speeches to play with Moon’s kids. Asked to keep watch of Moon children because no-one could control them. Lisa still has compassion for them but Robbie’s heart doesn’t bleed for billionaire kids. 35. Difficult childhood before the church so it was such a haven. 37 No-one joins a cult, they join a belief and then realize they are fucked. There are good things about the group but it doesn’t make the group good. 39. The harm is psychological. Even after leaving, Lisa was unable to say anything bad about Moon for a while. Took time. 44. Intro to book – for anyone who finds it insurvivable. Raised by wolves. That theme resonates through the podcast. 49. Lisa – acknowledge how hard it was. Also the book was a few years ago and there has been more healing since then. It does get better. 51. What a cult does to your brain. 53. Leaving church on their own, no community like there is now. 55. Discovered ICSA. Finding the ex Church community. 58. Marriage.  Difficult to be married to. 105. Thinking you are damaged. Suicide attempt, Wanted to die, believed Moon was the messiah and she was leaving him. 109. Because we believe we’re damaged we bring that into relationships. Partners question if they can be with you. People will judge you for something that happened in your past. 1.13. This show has 3 pillars. Highlight abuse. Why people left. How to rebuild a meaningful life after leaving. 1.14 Partner doesn’t have to understand it, just respect it. Don’t need to prove worth by winning over people who don’t like you.  Learn to love ourselves ‘first, most and always.’ 125. Groomed by the same guys who also kept her from killing herself. 1.30 due to rumors of fallen behavior, the Kohns were taken away from the Moon children. Then because a woman developed a crush on Robbie they weren’t allowed to see their mum. 132. Jealous of blessed Children. Mom said I never abandoned you because you were in my heart. Our parents had to make sense of it too. Hierarchy of True children, blessed children, children of blessed couples and then the Kohn kids as the lowest.

Episode 2

Trigger warning: Suicide ideation. which is a common theme.

3. Reading excerpt of the book – nearly a kiss. 5. Unable to make the first move. Not believing anyone wants me. 10. Being groomed by an engaged older ‘brother’ when Lisa was 16.  18. Speak of unconditional love but there wasn’t any.  21. Power of language. Putting the word True in front of people. 23. Robbie’s experiences of drinking and partying with Hyo Jin. Members told they are lucky to get beaten up by a true child. The privilege of abuse and pain. 33. Book excerpt At Cornell University. Walking past the CARP table. 37. Thoughts of suicide on the bridge. Better to fall to the rocks than fall spiritually. But got through it. 43. Robbie went through that later at 45. 44. What if it was all true and I will have to give up my children. It was so deeply carved and we blamed ourselves. 47. If enough people bow to you maybe you believe you’re the messiah. Even if it is a complete double standard. 49. Reflecting on writing the book. The purpose of the book is three messages: To find hope. We are all susceptible. We are not damaged. 54. Black hole when Lisa left. Walking back through the buildings and places where it happened to reclaim it. 55. Different person now than when Lisa wrote the book. 57. Difference between ‘I am broken’ and ‘I have scars.’ 1.00. Responding differently – Flight and Fawn response. People pleasing. 1.04 Title of the book, including the Moon. But also includes the idea of loving yourself to the Moon and Back.

Dead Presidents and Father’s Day with John Gorenfeld on Falling Out Podcast

Dead Presidents

1. Intro. Not a member, wrote about the ‘bromance between the UC and right wing politicians in USA’ . 8. Intro to the book, Bad Moon Rising. Right wing politicians and Washington Times. John as a young journalist. John not happy because the book was misfiled under conspiracy. 13. Background to John’s interest in the Moonies. Discovering elected officials supporting the Moonies. 17. Anonymous blogger – Moonie World. 22. Trying to tie together the many tentacles of the organisation as an outsider. 23. Forward to the book. ‘giant ATM for the far right’ 29. Washington Times. 31. Moonies throwing elections. Removing crosses from churches. 34. Dead presidents speaking. Mix of absurdity and cruelty. 36. Crowned King and Queen of america at the house of representatives. 40. Moon bought legitimacy. 41. Universal peace federation. 46. Moving away from describing Moon as a sinister evil to focusing on Conservatives conning Moon to get his money. 50. Similar to trump in erratic decisions. 53. Auto writing a rev moon speech. Moon’s speech is not one man’s opinion. It is truth. He would never say ‘thank you for listening’ 1.02.   Crowning of Moon at the senate. 1.04. Bishop Stallings. 1.06 Process of writing the book. Trying to avoid conspiracy theories. 1.13 Stallings and the church working with the black community. Stallings joined church and got a Japanese wife. 1.23 taking down the Cross. 1.30 priests taking wives.  1.34 Ambassadors for peace awards to get people to attend speeches. 1.39 Politicians attending and supporting church events was used to convince members it was legitimate. Using the credibility of the cult to keep children in the cult. 1.43 the second generation experience is different. First gen had a persecution complex but second gen didn’t choose this. 1.48 thank you for throwing rocks at the cult. Saying something on our behalf. 

Part 2: Father’s Day

1. Roe v Wade overturned. 3. Hiding church identity. 9. Washington Times funded by vulnerable Japanese widows. 12 shark poaching. Rules not applying to the church. 21 The book Inquisition written by a church member Jim Gavin. Freedom of religion. ‘Silence our critics’ 30. Lawsuit for scams in Japan. Church makes 350 million dollars per year in Japan. 33. Tragedy of the six Marys. Bill Cosby speaking at UC event. 40. Wierd political underbelly of the UC. 42. Different names for the UC. 43. Dinesh DeSouza. Trump spoke at an event. 46. IIFWP and hall of mirrors of name changes. 50. New Yorker Hotel – three deaths by falling. 58. Semen in the holy wine? Some was forensically analysed and contained nothing dubious. 1.07 cold shower and other conditions. 1.10 early memories of church and moon. Lineage. Being special. 1.15 not wanting to fulfill potential because you don’t want to prove the cult right. If I become a huge success now the cult will claim it. 

ICSA Conference June 2022

ICSA’s Online Annual Conference begins in 3 days. REGISTER NOW! ICSA Annual Conference – VirtualJune 24-26, 202211:00 am – 5:00 pm EST Conference Agenda and Other Details Tell others who might be interested in attending this conference. 
Sample of conference sessions:
Cultic Gaslighting (William Goldberg)
Coercive Control and Sexual Exploitation (Carrie McManus, Andrea Silverstone, Linda Dubrow-Marshall, Rod Dubrow-Marshall)
Visioning the Invisible: The Traumatized Bodies of Racialized Cult Members and Survivors (Evvie Ormon)
What do SGAs Want to Cover in Counseling? (Cyndi Matthews)
Synergy Between Cults and Terror Groups (Darin Challacombe)
Discussion Group for Former Members Who Were Parents in the Cult (Lorna Goldberg, Doni Whitsett)
Catholic Cults in our Midst? Catholic orders and movements accused of being cult-like (J. Paul Lennon)
Legal Aspects of Harm and Victimization in Cultic Groups (Linda Demaine)
The Evolution of Cult Intervention (Patrick Ryan, Joseph Kelly, Doni Whitsett, Rachel Bernstein)
Award ceremonies
Rosedale Award
Lifetime Achievement Award
Dianne Casoni Award

If you live outside the USA and have time-zone issues, the conference platform is available 24/hr. per day for 30 days. Watch recordings of most sessions and interact with other attendees.
Conference Website
Register Now!

Naming the Elephant: Mx Yeb Raven on Falling Out Podcast

1. Podcasts as therapy. 3. Grooming children for sexual abuse. 6. Pan sexual. 7. Talking about sexuality. 11. Shame around sex and stunted development – being stuck at a young age. 15. Joyful experience of sex outside of marriage with enthusiastic consent. 18. Lack of sexual boundaries makes you vulnerable for rape. Not knowing you can say no. Your body is not your own and you have no boundaries. Taught to go with what the male figure says. Common experience of women in the church having sex they didn’t want to have. 20. People join the church just to get a wife through the blessing. 24. Non binary – a gender outside of being man or a woman. Trans means you disagree with the assignment of male or female you were given at birth. Gender fluid is where it can change. 29. Feeling like an alien, not fitting in anywhere. 30. Church was so fundamentally make or female. Hetero normative fundamentalism. Grooming people for rape culture. 36. Nan Sook Hong story of sexual abuse as Hyo Jin Moon’s wife – In the Shadow of the Moons. 40. Research suggests we attach to the cult leader like we did as children to a care giver. Coercive control tactic forms this codependent relationship. So when you get out of a cult it’s as if you have a mental disorder you need to recover from. 45. Need for a therapist who understands you and will do the research. PTSD is from trauma and complex PTSD is from a period of long time with abuse. 47. Some people can’t even talk about it so they compartmentalise or dissociate. 49. Fight or flight response. Or freeze. So if we have experienced a lot of trauma we shut down. Freeze. 55. Borderline personality disorder. 56. Split up the family. 57. Can be treated. 59. Moon was a narcissist.  1.01 growing up believing we’re special. It’s hard to release we’re not. 1.05 pendulum readings. 1.10 matching photos. 1.15 leaving the church. Falling in love. 1.17 taken out of sex education. 1.20 ran away from home to another church family and they sent me back. Went to college. The person I was in love with brought me a stash of research about how bad the cult was. 1.23. Couldn’t leave home till 17 because of Texas law. Mom helped me get out. 1.32 we are taught to be with people we don’t like. Took a while to find someone who loves and respects me. Healing can take a long time. 1.40 Racism in the church. Korean being the master race. Privilege in general in the church. Mysogyny. 1.50 grew up white wanting to be Korean. Or marry a Korean. Plus other levels of racism in the church still to explore. 

Animals in the Halls: Mx Yeb Raven on Falling Out Podcast

1. Intro to season three. 5.intro to Mx Yeb Raven and trans community. 8. Trans ex moonie support group. 9. Welcome Yeb, non binary and transgender. 11. Parents missionaries to Israel. 14. New York Tribune 15. Labor trafficking and immigration fraud. Strategically organised mass weddings to organize the workforce. 18. Both parents were following exes who were in the church. 21. Move to USA and put in Jacob House at nearly 2 years old. 23. Several nurseries around the world where kids were left. 24. All three siblings in Jacob House, including 3 month old sister. 26. Painting of angel and Jacob wrestling. 30. No memory of adults at Jacob House. Ration of parents to kids never high enough. 32. Dream of wild ferocious animals walking the halls. Serious danger. 40. Finding sister in Jacob House. 41. Mother had psychotic break and left the church. 44. Flirty fishing 47. Jacob House shut down and move to New Yorker. 49. Offering child offer in exchange for possible compensation. 54. Named by some Korean guy. 58. Gender specific terms and cognitive dissonance. 1.01 toe and finger injuries on the escalator. Neglect at New Yorker. 1.06 laughing as a trauma response. 1.10 rape of children. Repressed memory – our minds do what they need to do to protect ourselves. New Yorker. 1.13 cult ignoring abuse of children. 1.20 brain not developed till 25 years old – don’t go to the blessing before 25 years old. Eriksons stages of development explains it. 1.30 not doing what you love because you’re married. 1.35 Feeling behind when you start dating in your thirties. 1.37 demisexuality. Only enjoy sex with someone you have an emotional connection to. Pause for part two. 

UPCOMING EVENT: Children Raising Children by Elgen Strait, March 30

Children Raising Children: Institutionalized Neglect in Cults – Elgen Strait speaks at the Family Survival Trust Event

Who are the Unification Church and “The Moonies”? What is it like to grow up as a “Moonie”? What difficulties do people who are born-in face? Does our society provide adequate support to former members?

Podcast host and former second-generation Moonie, Elgen Strait, will be answering these questions and more in our 2022 Annual Public Event.

Elgen will be sharing his fascinating personal story as well as insights into how the Unification Church operates and the common themes that have emerged through interviews with second-generation members on his podcast.

The event will last for one hour and include a 30 minute presentation followed by 30 minutes of questions and answers.

Doors open at 6.30 for a 7pm start. Following the event, the Zoom room will remain open for those who wish to stay and chat informally.

Register Here for the online event on March 30 2022

International Cultic Studies Association: Second and Multigenerational Adult Former Cult Member (S/MGA) Recovery Series


This series is specifically for second and multi-generational adult former cult members, however, this is the first program for S/MGAs that is open to all. In the past, ICSA workshops for this population have been limited to those who were themselves born or raised in cults. But we see the increasing need for those outside of this population to learn about the unique recovery issues relevant to S/MGAs.”

The first webinar in the 2022 series kicked off on Sunday, March 6th! It was entitled, “Overcoming Barriers to Healthy Sexuality for S/MGAs,” presented by Doni Whitsett and Katharina Meredith.

You can access the recording of this and all 2021 sessions through the S/MGA playlist on ICSA’s YouTube Channel. Doni Whitsett’s PowerPoint presentation from the March 6th webinar can be accessed HERE.

Please note the shift from Eastern Standard Time to Eastern Daylight Time beginning on Sunday, March 13th, 2022. Upcoming presentations in the ICSA S/MGA Recovery Series in 2022:

  • Sunday, March 13th, 2022, 1:00 – 2:15 pm EDT: After the Cult: Exploring Healthy Relationships for LGBQA+ Individuals, Presented by Cyndi Matthews and Ashlen Hilliard
  • Sunday, March 20th, 2022, 1:00 – 2:15 pm EDT: The Impact of Yesterday on Today, Presented by Lorna Goldberg and Ck Rardin
  • Sunday, March 27th, 2022, 1:00 – 2:15 pm EDT: Destigmatizing Medical Care Post-Cult, Presented by Eva Mackey and Ck Rardin

Elizabeth Community on Blessed Child Podcast with Hakja and Misook – Part 1 and 2

Part 1

‘Dear Elizabeth, New Jersey community, this is a long awaited episode from an excommunicated, shunned, 2nd gen youth leader. Just listen to the episode.

Thank you Hakja and Misook for bravely coming on and telling your stories. We dig deeper into the concepts of self-love and how intrinsically tied it is to the framework of love we grew up with. We also speak on dating in the uc, dating after the UC and unhealthy mentalities we are unraveling. this is a part 1 of a 2 part series.’


1. Intro: Child Bullying, first love, purity culture. 2. How do we first relate to others. Disney on par with UC, other-focused, wait for the guy and fall in love and get married easily.  Wait for a soul mate – sign from God. Set people up for marriage trafficking. 7. When things go wrong you start to question it. 9. Learning you can’t control anyone except yourself. 11. Dating church guys – two black holes – Need so much love. 14. Parents were avoiders – if something needed fixing we were told to pray about it or do a condition. Takes away blame, no accountability, no healthy relationships. 17. not learning conflict resolution. Threatening stability is a control tactic. 20. Tearing people down seen as an act of love since it was done to us. Expectation to become perfect. We were so judgmental and mean. 22 Protect us from our own shortcomings and insecurities. 25. Misook dancing with a partner – lead and follow. Not just reacting to the other person. Dancing seen as bad in the church. 27. Relationship with yourself through the body. Control of body through dance. 29. We were taught to ignore our bodies. 32. Leaving the cult shakes your sense of reality. You don’t know the danger you’re in until you’re out. 33. Every relationship teaches you something. Consent, fairy tale mentality. 34. Hakja – because of my name they told me I had to do important things for the church. 35. You’re the bad guy as soon as you leave the church and they forget you. 36. Hakja was youth pastor in Elizabeth Community for two years, not paid, running the youth group in all her free time until they kicked her out. 38.death threats. Because she wanted to start an ilshim program. The parents got mad when she was thinking of the kids. 43. Hakja was looking after the kids (and parents) and someone else took the credit. 45. labor trafficking. Ren made 25k on her mission year, GPA makes a million a year. 46. Hakja was running a free daycare, parents would dump their 5 year old kids while Hakja was 16. 40 kids. 50 toxic community. Spiritual bypassing. 58. Loosing everything when the community rejected her. 1.00 trauma lives in the body. Shaking when speaking about trauma. 1.02 bullying and abuse is framed as love and overcoming fallen nature. 

Part 2 – What it Takes to Leave

‘Thank you Hakja and Misook for bravely coming on and telling your stories. In this episode we cover second generation experience within cultic control, cultic abuse, marriage trafficking, conflict-resolution, recovering from a global sex cult, and learning how to distinguish what is healthy vs. unhealthy after leaving an extremist organization like the moonies. When a survivor tells their story, let them know they have been heard. Connecting with others is an important step in deconstruction and healing. For more on the Unification church follow the hashtag #exmoonie and #queerexmoonie. Visit Cult Info Since 1979 – Video Resources (icsahome.com) for more information by cult survivors. For questions or comments on the episode email reneethomasart@yahoo.com’


1. Disassociation and dis-regulation as an anxiety response to global events of war. 2. celebrate little things – This podcast put on ICSA site as a resource for UC support. 5. Summary of Hakja’s story. 8. Being judgmental when people leave. 12 like Encanto, the house is breaking. 14. loss, grief and trauma is held in your chest.  Dating guys in the church. No skills for relationships and breaking up. Matching process 23. Purity confessions for matching. They keep that and it’s blackmail material. Nobody has a right to your sexual history. No support when you divulge that information. 25. access to vulnerabilities as Cultic control. 26. Victims of sexual assault are seen as fallen instead of needing support. 28. People who want you to suffer in order to grow. 29. Need to get angry now because people made you feel small. 31.turning anger inwards into sadness. 33. Anger is the energy to build boundaries. 36. Growing up being told to be an object is conditioning for the future. 37. Heard about chung pyung and decided never to go. Hakja – spent a lot of time in hospital so had to do the work to fix her own body. So much negative energy towards my body so I started thanking my body and loving it. 43. Which makes it worse that, the church community dropped off 40 kids with Hakja for youth club when she was a 16-17 year old. 44. Not talk about power dynamics, if anything goes wrong it’s your own fault. 46. Any negative thoughts were your own problem. ‘negative’ is a thought-stopping cliche. You’re not allowed to think negative thoughts so you just jump to trying to fix it. Instead of express or explore it. 48. Black and white thinking is so dangerous because you demonise people. Healthy v unhealthy instead of good v bad. 51. Pressure as children to not make mistakes. 52. Lack of black and white means you have to have critical thinking and then not cut people down and judge them. Church members can be so judgmental because they only know good or bad. 55. Importance of communication in relationships. 60. Hakja – I know the DP and I ran workshops and I know it’s not true. 61. Having kids in the church is often what makes people leave as they realize they don’t want this for their kids. 62. It takes time to reparent yourself. 

Purity Culture: God’s Promise Part 2 on Blessed Child Podcast

‘Join in as Cathlene Bell, HK Ishida, Ryka Christopher and myself talk on dating post UC. We speak on how we are recovering from being raised in a high control group that stifles autonomy, gender roles in the UC, what sex means to us, and so much more. You can send HK Ishida a friend request on his instagram @hk.ishida and you can follow and listen to more of Cathlene Bell on her  podcast; Create imperfect anyway and instagram @Cathlene_Sublimates & @Createimperfectanyway. Find Ryka at @princessryka on IG and you can find me at Renrobot.art on facebook and instagram.  Ask questions, get answers.    For more on the Unification church please visit  https://itsoktoleave.org/  and follow the hashtag #exmoonie on instagram. This episode has been transcribed and you can follow the conversation on my website Exmoonie | Renrobot art | Big Spring (wildspacetattoo.wixsite.com)   https://wildspacetattoo.wixsite.com/tattoo. If your using the transcription please heart the blog, if there is no interactions with the blog this will be my last transcription provided.

Purity Culture in the UC: God’s Promise Part 1

‘How do survivors of extreme religion and purity culture even start to date? Well, its a long journey, and one episode can’t even begin to cover it all, but we can start. This episode is part 1 of a 2 part conversation, we dive right into dating post UC. Join in as HK Ishida, Cathlene Bell and myself talk on dating post UC, including how we recognized co-dependency, how to nourish self love, self awareness, social skill building and the consent mentality. You can send HK Ishida a friend request on his instagram @hk.ishida and you can follow and listen to more of Cathlene Bell on her podcast: Create imperfect anyway and instagram @Cathlene_Sublimates & @Createimperfectanyway. You can find me at Renrobot.art on facebook and instagram.  Ask questions, get answers.   For more on the Unification church please visit  ItsOKtoleave and follow the hashtag #exmoonie on instagram. 

This episode has been transcribed and you can follow the conversation on my website Exmoonie | Renrobot art | Big Spring (wildspacetattoo.wixsite.com)   Wildspacetattoo.wixsite.com/tattoo or Purity Culture in the UC: God’s Promise – Descript

 Visit What Is Sexual Consent? What Is Sexual Consent? | Facts About Rape & Sexual Assault (plannedparenthood.org)

 Domestic Violence can happen to anyone despite age, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion or gender. Please visit What is Domestic Violence? – Women’s Advocates – Women’s Advocates (wadvocates.org)